Comments on: Why We Can Neither Boycott nor Ignore “The Golden Compass” http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/ Where the Christian Faith Meets March Madness Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:17:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Richard Clark http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-4602 Richard Clark Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:04:16 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-4602 Haha, yeah. It's amazing how things can appear to the Christian Church to be one of the most important events ever and ends up being... eh. Haha, yeah. It’s amazing how things can appear to the Christian Church to be one of the most important events ever and ends up being… eh.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-4601 The Dane Fri, 12 Sep 2008 15:42:26 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-4601 Huh. As it turned out, we <i>could</i> neither boycott nor ignore <i>The Golden Compass</i>! Talk about a flash in a pan. The Danes last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/390103578/2008_09_01_old1.php" rel="nofollow">20080911</a> Huh. As it turned out, we could neither boycott nor ignore The Golden Compass! Talk about a flash in a pan.

The Danes last blog post..20080911

]]> By: Geoffrey Seven http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-511 Geoffrey Seven Fri, 01 Feb 2008 02:13:12 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-511 Personally, I favor boycotting boycotts. Personally, I favor boycotting boycotts.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-508 The Dane Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:36:46 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-508 Except boycotts. Nobody ever organizes against those. Except boycotts. Nobody ever organizes against those.

]]> By: David Dunham http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-507 David Dunham Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:21:56 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-507 You know us Christians...we'll boycott anything! You know us Christians…we’ll boycott anything!

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-506 The Dane Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:06:09 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-506 Wow, did people really boycott <i>V for Vendetta</i>? I don't remember that. Wow, did people really boycott V for Vendetta? I don’t remember that.

]]> By: Beth http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-346 Beth Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:23:52 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-346 I stole this from a facebook group because it says better than I know how to: "Whether it's The Last Temptation of Christ, V for Vendetta, The Da Vinci Code, Harry Potter or--the latest--The Golden Compass, some seem to neglect any understanding of personal resposibility and open forums of discussion. Media is an expression of culture and as such we should try to understand the overtones for the sake of not living blindly. If you don't want your kids to see a certain movie or whatever, don't take them to see it. But to campaign for others to follow your lead and say that "Christians have a moral duty" to do so is just plain wrong. I personally want to understand the cultural zeitgeist of which I am a part so I know how best to act, and I for one do not find mandates of boycotting to be helpful at all. The day we stifle open discussion is the day we eliminate our own freedom and saw our legs off from under us." I stole this from a facebook group because it says better than I know how to:

“Whether it’s The Last Temptation of Christ, V for Vendetta, The Da Vinci Code, Harry Potter or–the latest–The Golden Compass, some seem to neglect any understanding of personal resposibility and open forums of discussion. Media is an expression of culture and as such we should try to understand the overtones for the sake of not living blindly. If you don’t want your kids to see a certain movie or whatever, don’t take them to see it. But to campaign for others to follow your lead and say that “Christians have a moral duty” to do so is just plain wrong. I personally want to understand the cultural zeitgeist of which I am a part so I know how best to act, and I for one do not find mandates of boycotting to be helpful at all. The day we stifle open discussion is the day we eliminate our own freedom and saw our legs off from under us.”

]]> By: Geoffrey Seven http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-302 Geoffrey Seven Thu, 27 Dec 2007 12:48:06 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-302 Wow, I really appreciate everyone's insightful comments in response to mine. I pretty much agree with most of what is said here -- first of all, that of course as a Christian, I do not "agree" with Pullman in any simple sense. But as Alan and Ben point out, when someone is so easily able to confuse the errors of the church with the Truth about God, we do need to ask ourselves why. And (I believe) to take some of the criticisms to heart. So just to be clear, I do not agree with Pullman's conclusions, but I identified with many of his criticisms of the church (Roman Catholic and otherwise). The same perceptions (Christian = narrow-minded, self-serving, hypocritical, anti-intellectual, hate-filled) had caused me to utterly reject Christianity for many years. I did end up seeing the movie. Interestingly after seeing it, I'm less worried about protecting kids. They seem to totally miss the whole religious subtext. But it was a good enough movie that I can readily imagine adult non-believers leaving the theater nodding their heads in agreement. I want to suggest that we should be the believers who attend the film with our non-believing friends, and maybe hear their stories of faith lost or compromised. Because that can be the start of a relationship that ultimately leads someone back toward God. And if you are thinking, "Gosh, I don't have any non-believing friends,".... Wow, I really appreciate everyone’s insightful comments in response to mine. I pretty much agree with most of what is said here — first of all, that of course as a Christian, I do not “agree” with Pullman in any simple sense. But as Alan and Ben point out, when someone is so easily able to confuse the errors of the church with the Truth about God, we do need to ask ourselves why. And (I believe) to take some of the criticisms to heart.

So just to be clear, I do not agree with Pullman’s conclusions, but I identified with many of his criticisms of the church (Roman Catholic and otherwise). The same perceptions (Christian = narrow-minded, self-serving, hypocritical, anti-intellectual, hate-filled) had caused me to utterly reject Christianity for many years.

I did end up seeing the movie. Interestingly after seeing it, I’m less worried about protecting kids. They seem to totally miss the whole religious subtext. But it was a good enough movie that I can readily imagine adult non-believers leaving the theater nodding their heads in agreement. I want to suggest that we should be the believers who attend the film with our non-believing friends, and maybe hear their stories of faith lost or compromised. Because that can be the start of a relationship that ultimately leads someone back toward God.

And if you are thinking, “Gosh, I don’t have any non-believing friends,”….

]]> By: Would you pass the zeal test? « Final Days Forum http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-285 Would you pass the zeal test? « Final Days Forum Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:07:27 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-285 [...] although recent blog posts by Travis McGowen , Keith Plummer and David Dunham are discussing the film, The Golden Compass, they hit on Schaeffer and Pearcy’s same point. [...] [...] although recent blog posts by Travis McGowen , Keith Plummer and David Dunham are discussing the film, The Golden Compass, they hit on Schaeffer and Pearcy’s same point. [...]

]]> By: links for 2007-12-19 at Dwight::Knoll http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-284 links for 2007-12-19 at Dwight::Knoll Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:20:51 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-284 [...] Christ and Pop Culture | Why We Can Neither Boycott nor Ignore “The Golden Compass” (tags: blog article theology culture) [...] [...] Christ and Pop Culture | Why We Can Neither Boycott nor Ignore “The Golden Compass” (tags: blog article theology culture) [...]

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-224 The Dane Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:06:31 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-224 Probably as many as there are anti-Harry Potter books. And anti-D&D books. People are rad like that. Probably as many as there are anti-Harry Potter books. And anti-D&D books. People are rad like that.

]]> By: Alan Noble http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-223 Alan Noble Tue, 11 Dec 2007 05:54:20 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-223 The Dane-- In that same thought, I wonder how many copies of anti-Da Vinci Code books are laying around unattended right now. The Dane–
In that same thought, I wonder how many copies of anti-Da Vinci Code books are laying around unattended right now.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-221 The Dane Tue, 11 Dec 2007 03:33:24 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-221 In this day, I wonder why anyone bothers to buy <i>a book</i> detailing criticism of a flash-in-the-pan pop-cult experience. Imagine how much use someone will get out of that book in nine months (or even one). Especially when you can get all the information you need by 1) reading the material firsthand and 2) opening up Google and typing in <i>His Dark Materials</i>. In this day, I wonder why anyone bothers to buy a book detailing criticism of a flash-in-the-pan pop-cult experience. Imagine how much use someone will get out of that book in nine months (or even one). Especially when you can get all the information you need by 1) reading the material firsthand and 2) opening up Google and typing in His Dark Materials.

]]> By: Bradley Cochran http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-220 Bradley Cochran Tue, 11 Dec 2007 02:00:12 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-220 "Never judge a philosophy by its abuses" - St. Augustine great quote “Never judge a philosophy by its abuses” – St. Augustine

great quote

]]> By: John Thomas http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-218 John Thomas Mon, 10 Dec 2007 13:29:50 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-218 There are 2 good books on Pullman/HDM by John Houghton & Hugh Rayment-Pickard (both Christians) - they really expose the whole thing. See the details from my review: http://www.librarianscf.org.uk/bookshelf/opinion/houghton.html There are 2 good books on Pullman/HDM by John Houghton & Hugh Rayment-Pickard (both Christians) – they really expose the whole thing. See the details from my review:
http://www.librarianscf.org.uk/bookshelf/opinion/houghton.html

]]> By: Damian http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-217 Damian Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:16:30 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-217 I find the idea of "destroying Chrisitanity" quite brutal and authroitarian in its own right. There is one thing Schaeffer points out again and again in his writings and that is the contradiction involved in rejecting God. Even to reject an authoritarian church one needs a basis for that rejection other than one's own feelings. I find that the athiests I talk to that tell me the church is oppressive or whatever have a very hard time explaining why. Ironically they usually invoke some sort of transcendent moral law to denounce whatever they feel is unjust or wrong. The delicate task is then to show them that what they are invoking is actually pointing to something great i.e. God. The trick then is not clobber them with the logical contradiction of their own thinking but gently guide them to it. Not easy but necessary. Remember Christ died while we were ALL his enemies. P.S. Something Augustine has said applies here too. Never judge a philosophy by its abuses. God Bless Damian I find the idea of “destroying Chrisitanity” quite brutal and authroitarian in its own right. There is one thing Schaeffer points out again and again in his writings and that is the contradiction involved in rejecting God. Even to reject an authoritarian church one needs a basis for that rejection other than one’s own feelings. I find that the athiests I talk to that tell me the church is oppressive or whatever have a very hard time explaining why. Ironically they usually invoke some sort of transcendent moral law to denounce whatever they feel is unjust or wrong. The delicate task is then to show them that what they are invoking is actually pointing to something great i.e. God. The trick then is not clobber them with the logical contradiction of their own thinking but gently guide them to it. Not easy but necessary.
Remember Christ died while we were ALL his enemies.
P.S. Something Augustine has said applies here too. Never judge a philosophy by its abuses.
God Bless Damian

]]> By: Alan Noble http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-216 Alan Noble Sun, 09 Dec 2007 21:39:28 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-216 Naturally. Naturally.

]]> By: David Dunham http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-214 David Dunham Sun, 09 Dec 2007 18:22:42 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-214 Calvin became Pope prior to the events of the book and after his papal reign ended the papacy dissolved and became a number of various counsels and other organizations composed of various religious authorities. Sometimes competing, sometimes in agreement. Calvin became Pope prior to the events of the book and after his papal reign ended the papacy dissolved and became a number of various counsels and other organizations composed of various religious authorities. Sometimes competing, sometimes in agreement.

]]> By: Alan Noble http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-213 Alan Noble Sun, 09 Dec 2007 16:23:08 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-213 I heard Calvin becomes a Pope in the book. I heard Calvin becomes a Pope in the book.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-212 The Dane Sun, 09 Dec 2007 15:58:47 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/film/evangelism-and-the-culture-a-lesson-from-francis-schaeffer/#comment-212 Uhm. Just a note. The church in the book is not the Roman Catholic church. It is, apparently, the only church as there was a Reformation, but no schism (as Calvin took the seat of the papacy to Geneva). There doesn't even seem to be an Eastern Church. There is only The Church. So to view his attack as being leveled against the Roman Church alone is inaccuarate. Uhm. Just a note. The church in the book is not the Roman Catholic church. It is, apparently, the only church as there was a Reformation, but no schism (as Calvin took the seat of the papacy to Geneva). There doesn’t even seem to be an Eastern Church. There is only The Church.

So to view his attack as being leveled against the Roman Church alone is inaccuarate.

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