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	<title>Comments on: Why Should The Church Care About Your Art?</title>
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	<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/general-culture/why-should-the-church-care-about-your-art/</link>
	<description>Where the Christian Faith Meets March Madness</description>
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		<title>By: Coca-Cola Drinking Christians: Neo-Marxism In The Church? &#171; The Official Blog Of God&#39;s Only Inerrant Party</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/general-culture/why-should-the-church-care-about-your-art/#comment-70172</link>
		<dc:creator>Coca-Cola Drinking Christians: Neo-Marxism In The Church? &#171; The Official Blog Of God&#39;s Only Inerrant Party</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=974#comment-70172</guid>
		<description>[...] Emergent churches are into being relevant and making a point by incorporating secular and worldly pop culture into their theology. We also Know that Coke is a modern icon idol of secular and worldly pop [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Emergent churches are into being relevant and making a point by incorporating secular and worldly pop culture into their theology. We also Know that Coke is a modern icon idol of secular and worldly pop [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Dunham</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/general-culture/why-should-the-church-care-about-your-art/#comment-3460</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dunham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=974#comment-3460</guid>
		<description>I agree with you Ben,that&#039;s my issue with Kluck&#039;s comments in the book (which, you are right, is otherwise really good).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you Ben,that&#8217;s my issue with Kluck&#8217;s comments in the book (which, you are right, is otherwise really good).</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/general-culture/why-should-the-church-care-about-your-art/#comment-3423</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=974#comment-3423</guid>
		<description>Hey David,

I do hear what you&#039;re saying, but I do think on this point (in an otherwise helpful book) they&#039;ve somewhat missed the point.

Sure, if artists are asking for financial support and some non-specific vote of confidence then they are probably off track.  

However, it seems to me that the central issue is whether or not artistic expression has a special role in connecting humanity with the divine.  

If you go to the Catholic church, you&#039;ll see that they place great value on art as a way of raising their thoughts to God, of clarifying their understanding of topics like suffering or glory, and of placing their minds in the right mindset for prayer and worship.

It&#039;s this view and valuation of art (as well as unity in financial assets) that explains why Catholics meet in cathedrals and Protestants rent out the cafeteria of the local elementary school. 

These days, though, lots of Protestants are asking how we can recapture the valuation of many good aspects of art while still rejecting the icon worship Catholics are prone to.  I think, when young emergents complain about churches &quot;not supporting&quot; the arts, they are feeling that their churches are willing to throw the baby (appreciation of the way art draws our thoughts toward God and his Truth) out with the bathwater (Catholics praying to statues of saints or kissing dead bones).

So, I do think it&#039;s oversimplifying to suggest that it&#039;s the same as asking whether churches support their local plumber.  At its center, it&#039;s a discussion about whether art has a valuable role in worship or whether we can afford to entirely abandon it, writing it off as a mere secular profession.

Ben Bartletts last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://benbartlett.blogspot.com/2008/05/fun-notes-and-pictures.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fun notes and pictures.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey David,</p>
<p>I do hear what you&#8217;re saying, but I do think on this point (in an otherwise helpful book) they&#8217;ve somewhat missed the point.</p>
<p>Sure, if artists are asking for financial support and some non-specific vote of confidence then they are probably off track.  </p>
<p>However, it seems to me that the central issue is whether or not artistic expression has a special role in connecting humanity with the divine.  </p>
<p>If you go to the Catholic church, you&#8217;ll see that they place great value on art as a way of raising their thoughts to God, of clarifying their understanding of topics like suffering or glory, and of placing their minds in the right mindset for prayer and worship.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s this view and valuation of art (as well as unity in financial assets) that explains why Catholics meet in cathedrals and Protestants rent out the cafeteria of the local elementary school. </p>
<p>These days, though, lots of Protestants are asking how we can recapture the valuation of many good aspects of art while still rejecting the icon worship Catholics are prone to.  I think, when young emergents complain about churches &#8220;not supporting&#8221; the arts, they are feeling that their churches are willing to throw the baby (appreciation of the way art draws our thoughts toward God and his Truth) out with the bathwater (Catholics praying to statues of saints or kissing dead bones).</p>
<p>So, I do think it&#8217;s oversimplifying to suggest that it&#8217;s the same as asking whether churches support their local plumber.  At its center, it&#8217;s a discussion about whether art has a valuable role in worship or whether we can afford to entirely abandon it, writing it off as a mere secular profession.</p>
<p>Ben Bartletts last blog post..<a href="http://benbartlett.blogspot.com/2008/05/fun-notes-and-pictures.html" rel="nofollow">Fun notes and pictures.</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Dane</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/general-culture/why-should-the-church-care-about-your-art/#comment-3396</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:06:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=974#comment-3396</guid>
		<description>For me, it&#039;s enough that the church understand and allow art (which it doesn&#039;t really do that well). I don&#039;t want the church to support art. I don&#039;t even want the church to celebrate art (any more than I want the church to celebrate file folders&#8212;after all, being well-organized is every bit as much a trait humans may possess in reflection of their creator).

Really, I&#039;m not even sure what is meant by support here. It&#039;s kinda like with breast cancer. &quot;Support breast cancer!&quot; What does that even mean? Let&#039;s pretend that grammatically that doesn&#039;t mean either cheering bras (which mechanically support breasts, which host the cancer) or cheering for the cancer itself. Let&#039;s pretend that we&#039;re supposed to support the end of breast cancer. What does that even look like?

Is it just me saying, &quot;Boo breast cancer&quot;? Is it me giving money to cancer destruction forces? Is it me offering myself as a guinea pig to science? Or is it me just crossing my fingers, hoping for the best, and telling people who ask that I&#039;m supporting breast cancer?

I have the same problem with the emergent fad of needing to support the arts. As an artist (who hopes to make a living from his art) and son of an artist (who made his living from his art), I haven&#039;t the foggiest idea what I&#039;m supposed to be wanting from the church here.

As to your suggestions, I&#039;ll gently nix #1 on the grounds that God didn&#039;t make us to be artistic or creative. Sure, he made some of us to be that way, but that number is pretty small. Trust me, I&#039;ve seen the internet.

#2 Protestants may or may not have reacted to strongly against the horror of icons, but the Reformed church (which is most directly descended from iconoclast practices) seems to have a far more healthy view of both art and the artist than many other evangelical traditions. (Generally, that is. I still run into the occasional crazy Reformed lady who thinks museums are filled with porn.)

The Danes last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/369179383/2008_08_01_old1.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;20080819&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, it&#8217;s enough that the church understand and allow art (which it doesn&#8217;t really do that well). I don&#8217;t want the church to support art. I don&#8217;t even want the church to celebrate art (any more than I want the church to celebrate file folders&#8212;after all, being well-organized is every bit as much a trait humans may possess in reflection of their creator).</p>
<p>Really, I&#8217;m not even sure what is meant by support here. It&#8217;s kinda like with breast cancer. &#8220;Support breast cancer!&#8221; What does that even mean? Let&#8217;s pretend that grammatically that doesn&#8217;t mean either cheering bras (which mechanically support breasts, which host the cancer) or cheering for the cancer itself. Let&#8217;s pretend that we&#8217;re supposed to support the end of breast cancer. What does that even look like?</p>
<p>Is it just me saying, &#8220;Boo breast cancer&#8221;? Is it me giving money to cancer destruction forces? Is it me offering myself as a guinea pig to science? Or is it me just crossing my fingers, hoping for the best, and telling people who ask that I&#8217;m supporting breast cancer?</p>
<p>I have the same problem with the emergent fad of needing to support the arts. As an artist (who hopes to make a living from his art) and son of an artist (who made his living from his art), I haven&#8217;t the foggiest idea what I&#8217;m supposed to be wanting from the church here.</p>
<p>As to your suggestions, I&#8217;ll gently nix #1 on the grounds that God didn&#8217;t make us to be artistic or creative. Sure, he made some of us to be that way, but that number is pretty small. Trust me, I&#8217;ve seen the internet.</p>
<p>#2 Protestants may or may not have reacted to strongly against the horror of icons, but the Reformed church (which is most directly descended from iconoclast practices) seems to have a far more healthy view of both art and the artist than many other evangelical traditions. (Generally, that is. I still run into the occasional crazy Reformed lady who thinks museums are filled with porn.)</p>
<p>The Danes last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/369179383/2008_08_01_old1.php" rel="nofollow">20080819</a></p>
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