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	<title>Comments on: +44 and Punk Rock&#8217;s Lack of Maturity</title>
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	<description>Where the Christian Faith Meets &#34;And The Award Goes To...&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-3062</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-3062</guid>
		<description>David, on the subject of American Idiot I&#039;m with Erik. While Dookie was very much the typical 3 chord catchy punk song format, American Idiot adds a whole dimension, which was really gradually built up to throughout their career. Each song is profound both musically and lyrically. Have you listened to the whole album?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, on the subject of American Idiot I&#8217;m with Erik. While Dookie was very much the typical 3 chord catchy punk song format, American Idiot adds a whole dimension, which was really gradually built up to throughout their career. Each song is profound both musically and lyrically. Have you listened to the whole album?</p>
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		<title>By: David Dunham</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-3061</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dunham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-3061</guid>
		<description>Erik,

   Thanks for your comments. I think if you look back over my article you find that I more than readily acknowledge the pragmatic side of making records. 

Furthermore, I point out that this is a question I am raising. I am not giving a definitive answer. I am simply wondering if progressive growth and development of skill  reflects a more ideal manifestation of God-given creative ability as opposed to reproduction.

Also, I&#039;d be interested to know how  &quot;American Idiot&quot; stands as such a significant improvement to &quot;Dookie.&quot; At this point I would simply disagree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erik,</p>
<p>   Thanks for your comments. I think if you look back over my article you find that I more than readily acknowledge the pragmatic side of making records. </p>
<p>Furthermore, I point out that this is a question I am raising. I am not giving a definitive answer. I am simply wondering if progressive growth and development of skill  reflects a more ideal manifestation of God-given creative ability as opposed to reproduction.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;d be interested to know how  &#8220;American Idiot&#8221; stands as such a significant improvement to &#8220;Dookie.&#8221; At this point I would simply disagree.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Dungan</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-3052</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Dungan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 22:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-3052</guid>
		<description>First, I would argue that Green Day&#039;s music has matured over the years. &quot;American Idiot&quot; was much different (and better) than &quot;Dookie&quot;, IMO. 

I&#039;m confused as to how you make a &quot;theology of art&quot; translating into requiring &quot;continued growth&quot;. Are you referring to improved skills? Changing style? I don&#039;t see the connection. 

If an artist creates because they recognized their innate/God-given drive to do so, what does that mean their style must evolve? 

With secular bands like +44, I&#039;d say you completely ignored the business aspects. Pragmatism means you keep making what people want to buy. Furthermore, do you honestly think a major record label is going to let a band create albums with no input or boundaries? 

This is a very interesting topic–but I&#039;d say you missed some important aspects of the equation.

Erik Dungans last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://ebispo.com/2008/07/20/introducing-ebispo-pulse/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Introducing Ebispo Pulse (Join and Win Some Stuff)&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I would argue that Green Day&#8217;s music has matured over the years. &#8220;American Idiot&#8221; was much different (and better) than &#8220;Dookie&#8221;, IMO. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m confused as to how you make a &#8220;theology of art&#8221; translating into requiring &#8220;continued growth&#8221;. Are you referring to improved skills? Changing style? I don&#8217;t see the connection. </p>
<p>If an artist creates because they recognized their innate/God-given drive to do so, what does that mean their style must evolve? </p>
<p>With secular bands like +44, I&#8217;d say you completely ignored the business aspects. Pragmatism means you keep making what people want to buy. Furthermore, do you honestly think a major record label is going to let a band create albums with no input or boundaries? </p>
<p>This is a very interesting topic–but I&#8217;d say you missed some important aspects of the equation.</p>
<p>Erik Dungans last blog post..<a href="http://ebispo.com/2008/07/20/introducing-ebispo-pulse/" rel="nofollow">Introducing Ebispo Pulse (Join and Win Some Stuff)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Adena</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-3008</link>
		<dc:creator>Adena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-3008</guid>
		<description>I tend to lean toward this idea;
&quot;A Theology of art seems to cry out for continued growth and development and not reproduction.&quot; 

I have a hard time answering your question in terms of &quot;should&quot; or &quot;should not,&quot; however. While it will probably mature me artistically to listen to more progressively changing music, I can&#039;t say whether I think I&#039;d be wrong for not doing so. It&#039;s not best for me to eat a bag of potato chips with my sandwich as oppsed to, say, an apple, but I don&#039;t think I could say that it&#039;s SINFUL... but maybe that&#039;s not what you meant(?)

Adenas last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://formerlyfarley.blogspot.com/2008/07/captain-destructo-strikes-again.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Captain Destructo Strikes Again&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to lean toward this idea;<br />
&#8220;A Theology of art seems to cry out for continued growth and development and not reproduction.&#8221; </p>
<p>I have a hard time answering your question in terms of &#8220;should&#8221; or &#8220;should not,&#8221; however. While it will probably mature me artistically to listen to more progressively changing music, I can&#8217;t say whether I think I&#8217;d be wrong for not doing so. It&#8217;s not best for me to eat a bag of potato chips with my sandwich as oppsed to, say, an apple, but I don&#8217;t think I could say that it&#8217;s SINFUL&#8230; but maybe that&#8217;s not what you meant(?)</p>
<p>Adenas last blog post..<a href="http://formerlyfarley.blogspot.com/2008/07/captain-destructo-strikes-again.html" rel="nofollow">Captain Destructo Strikes Again</a></p>
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		<title>By: I Don't Know Joel Osteen But His Daddy Died Too Young</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2999</link>
		<dc:creator>I Don't Know Joel Osteen But His Daddy Died Too Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2999</guid>
		<description>[...] I ended up reading a blog post complaining about Joel Osteen&#8217;s theology that linked to this article that mentioned Relient K&#8217;s song [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I ended up reading a blog post complaining about Joel Osteen&#8217;s theology that linked to this article that mentioned Relient K&#8217;s song [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2997</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 23:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2997</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t think anyone else on the planet liked Relient K&#039;s &quot;Deathbed&quot; (okay, so you didn&#039;t actually say you &quot;liked it&quot;)... weird, but I want to cry like a baby when I listen to that song. Something about life starting out with so much promise and then &quot;BOOM!&quot; it&#039;s all gone and wasted away... makes me sad.

Mikes last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/tradeseo/~3/330426610/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;5 Most Popular Search Phrases&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t think anyone else on the planet liked Relient K&#8217;s &#8220;Deathbed&#8221; (okay, so you didn&#8217;t actually say you &#8220;liked it&#8221;)&#8230; weird, but I want to cry like a baby when I listen to that song. Something about life starting out with so much promise and then &#8220;BOOM!&#8221; it&#8217;s all gone and wasted away&#8230; makes me sad.</p>
<p>Mikes last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/tradeseo/~3/330426610/" rel="nofollow">5 Most Popular Search Phrases</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Peacock</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2994</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Peacock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2994</guid>
		<description>There is a time to be challenged and a time to be comforted.

Both, I think, are necessary in their proper balance.

Jordan Peacocks last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com/2008/06/ordinary-radicals-trailer.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Ordinary Radicals - Trailer&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a time to be challenged and a time to be comforted.</p>
<p>Both, I think, are necessary in their proper balance.</p>
<p>Jordan Peacocks last blog post..<a href="http://hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com/2008/06/ordinary-radicals-trailer.html" rel="nofollow">The Ordinary Radicals &#8211; Trailer</a></p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2993</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:30:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2993</guid>
		<description>I agree that some bands have done a good job at this (Mewithoutyou, Frodus is a good exmaple), and I agree that for some bands it&#039;s simply not possible...But my main question has remained untouched by you all: Should Christians celebrate more progressive music than simply the same-old stuff? I don&#039;t have an answer so I&#039;d actually like your thoughts on this folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that some bands have done a good job at this (Mewithoutyou, Frodus is a good exmaple), and I agree that for some bands it&#8217;s simply not possible&#8230;But my main question has remained untouched by you all: Should Christians celebrate more progressive music than simply the same-old stuff? I don&#8217;t have an answer so I&#8217;d actually like your thoughts on this folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Peacock</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2980</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Peacock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2980</guid>
		<description>This was very clear with the Smashing Pumpkins as well. At the end of their career (originally) with the commercially unsuccessful (but artistically forward-thinking) Adore and Machina, they released the song Untitled, which was a complete throwback to their sound from Siamese Dream.

Corgan&#039;s comment was that they could write those songs anytime, but in order to grow they had to do something else...even at the expense of some of their fanbase.

Not all bands can afford that drop, as Dane mentioned, and those that try usually pay the price. The few exceptions (Radiohead, Thrice) don&#039;t necessarily negate the rule.

Jordan Peacocks last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com/2008/06/ordinary-radicals-trailer.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Ordinary Radicals - Trailer&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was very clear with the Smashing Pumpkins as well. At the end of their career (originally) with the commercially unsuccessful (but artistically forward-thinking) Adore and Machina, they released the song Untitled, which was a complete throwback to their sound from Siamese Dream.</p>
<p>Corgan&#8217;s comment was that they could write those songs anytime, but in order to grow they had to do something else&#8230;even at the expense of some of their fanbase.</p>
<p>Not all bands can afford that drop, as Dane mentioned, and those that try usually pay the price. The few exceptions (Radiohead, Thrice) don&#8217;t necessarily negate the rule.</p>
<p>Jordan Peacocks last blog post..<a href="http://hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com/2008/06/ordinary-radicals-trailer.html" rel="nofollow">The Ordinary Radicals &#8211; Trailer</a></p>
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		<title>By: The Dane</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2978</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2978</guid>
		<description>The problem for bands that actually make a living at what they do is that while fans say they want growth, they really just want more of the same. 

Case in point. 

Weezer&#039;s first album (&lt;i&gt;Blue&lt;/i&gt;) garnered them a ton of fans and made them radio darlings on Alt-Rock stations. Anticipation was pretty high for Weezer&#039;s second album. When &lt;i&gt;Pinkerton&lt;/i&gt; arrived, it was a disaster. The album showed maturity and growth over the prior album and despite having since become acclaimed critically as being Weezer&#039;s best album, it wasn&#039;t what listening wanted. 

Neither their label nor their fanbase were particularly amused.

It&#039;s much easier for indie bands to experiment and grow than it is for established bands to do so. If Havalina Rail Co. wanted to depart from swing/folk/bluegrass and try out some imaginary Russian music, who was going to care? If Wilco wanted to ditch their country-ish sound and create &lt;i&gt;Yankee Hotel Foxtrot&lt;/i&gt;, they were pretty much free to do so.

But if the Rolling Stones came out with a techno album or if Metallica went reggae, heads would roll.

So add to the expectation factor the fact that growth isn&#039;t easy. How many authors (and great authors) have one style that they excel at and never really leave home to try out new things. Same with artists. Most musicians are really good with the music that they are good at&#8212;the music they feel deep in their soul&#8212;but when even able to cross genres with some degree of confidence, they&#039;ll never be as good in the new territory as they were in their home region. 

Jefferson could do a great airplane, but their starship would never be worthwhile. 

Very few musicians even have the talent to grow. That&#039;s why we praise even moderate growth in musicians. Fiona Apple&#039;s transition from &lt;i&gt;Tidal&lt;/i&gt; to &lt;i&gt;When the Pawn...&lt;/i&gt; to &lt;i&gt;Extraordinary Machine,/i&gt; is heartening even though the growth is not vast. Same with Pixies as they moved from &lt;i&gt;Surfer Rosa&lt;/i&gt; to &lt;i&gt;Doolittle&lt;/i&gt; and then to &lt;i&gt;Bossanova&lt;/i&gt;. These may be safe moves, but at least we&#039;re happy to say we see movement.

It&#039;s always sad for me to see that bands like Steely Dan or Jethro Tull or whatever are playing at the Orange County Fair or at Verizon Amphitheater because I know that they are only playing their hits from thirty years ago. Even if they have new stuff, no one wants to hear it.

The Danes last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/337253750/2008_07_01_old1.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;20080716&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem for bands that actually make a living at what they do is that while fans say they want growth, they really just want more of the same. </p>
<p>Case in point. </p>
<p>Weezer&#8217;s first album (<i>Blue</i>) garnered them a ton of fans and made them radio darlings on Alt-Rock stations. Anticipation was pretty high for Weezer&#8217;s second album. When <i>Pinkerton</i> arrived, it was a disaster. The album showed maturity and growth over the prior album and despite having since become acclaimed critically as being Weezer&#8217;s best album, it wasn&#8217;t what listening wanted. </p>
<p>Neither their label nor their fanbase were particularly amused.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s much easier for indie bands to experiment and grow than it is for established bands to do so. If Havalina Rail Co. wanted to depart from swing/folk/bluegrass and try out some imaginary Russian music, who was going to care? If Wilco wanted to ditch their country-ish sound and create <i>Yankee Hotel Foxtrot</i>, they were pretty much free to do so.</p>
<p>But if the Rolling Stones came out with a techno album or if Metallica went reggae, heads would roll.</p>
<p>So add to the expectation factor the fact that growth isn&#8217;t easy. How many authors (and great authors) have one style that they excel at and never really leave home to try out new things. Same with artists. Most musicians are really good with the music that they are good at&#8212;the music they feel deep in their soul&#8212;but when even able to cross genres with some degree of confidence, they&#8217;ll never be as good in the new territory as they were in their home region. </p>
<p>Jefferson could do a great airplane, but their starship would never be worthwhile. </p>
<p>Very few musicians even have the talent to grow. That&#8217;s why we praise even moderate growth in musicians. Fiona Apple&#8217;s transition from <i>Tidal</i> to <i>When the Pawn&#8230;</i> to <i>Extraordinary Machine,/i&gt; is heartening even though the growth is not vast. Same with Pixies as they moved from </i><i>Surfer Rosa</i> to <i>Doolittle</i> and then to <i>Bossanova</i>. These may be safe moves, but at least we&#8217;re happy to say we see movement.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s always sad for me to see that bands like Steely Dan or Jethro Tull or whatever are playing at the Orange County Fair or at Verizon Amphitheater because I know that they are only playing their hits from thirty years ago. Even if they have new stuff, no one wants to hear it.</p>
<p>The Danes last blog post..<a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/337253750/2008_07_01_old1.php" rel="nofollow">20080716</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Noble</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2977</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2977</guid>
		<description>Refused&#039;s &quot;The Shape of Punk to Come&quot; (I hope I got that title right) is one of the greatest hardcore/punk albums I&#039;ve ever heard. Amazing. And At The Drive-In was great too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Refused&#8217;s &#8220;The Shape of Punk to Come&#8221; (I hope I got that title right) is one of the greatest hardcore/punk albums I&#8217;ve ever heard. Amazing. And At The Drive-In was great too.</p>
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		<title>By: Jordan Peacock</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2975</link>
		<dc:creator>Jordan Peacock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2975</guid>
		<description>This is precisely why my favorite punk bands are the likes of Ninety Pound Wuss, Frodus, Refused, At The Drive-In, mewithoutYou, The Mars Volta, The Fall Of Troy, and others who utterly shattered the idea that one can merely sit idly by and create cliche, passe, music.

Jordan Peacocks last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com/2008/06/ordinary-radicals-trailer.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Ordinary Radicals - Trailer&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is precisely why my favorite punk bands are the likes of Ninety Pound Wuss, Frodus, Refused, At The Drive-In, mewithoutYou, The Mars Volta, The Fall Of Troy, and others who utterly shattered the idea that one can merely sit idly by and create cliche, passe, music.</p>
<p>Jordan Peacocks last blog post..<a href="http://hewhocutsdown.blogspot.com/2008/06/ordinary-radicals-trailer.html" rel="nofollow">The Ordinary Radicals &#8211; Trailer</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Noble</title>
		<link>http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/christian-art-is-mature-art/#comment-2974</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:29:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=768#comment-2974</guid>
		<description>David,

You&#039;re putting a lot of pressure on SoberMinded&#039;s next album to mature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re putting a lot of pressure on SoberMinded&#8217;s next album to mature.</p>
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