Comments on: The Failure of Christian Hip Hop http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/ Where the Christian Faith Meets "And The Award Goes To..." Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:10:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Scott http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-69104 Scott Sat, 06 Feb 2010 04:22:56 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-69104 Thank you, Prophetik Soul, for actually taking the time to <i>read</i> the article before commenting on it. That doesn't happen much around here. You make some good points. I think your explanation of the cause for the differences between hip hop and its christian parody is helpful. Thank you, Prophetik Soul, for actually taking the time to read the article before commenting on it. That doesn’t happen much around here.

You make some good points. I think your explanation of the cause for the differences between hip hop and its christian parody is helpful.

]]> By: Prophetik Soul http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-68894 Prophetik Soul Thu, 04 Feb 2010 15:20:56 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-68894 I discovered this topic late but oh well... I think some valid points are made in this commentary. I have met a lot of Christian rap artists over the years. As a former youth minister, I introduced lots of kids to it. Here is my take. 1.Evangelical Hip Hop is confessionally shallow. I agree with you, to some extent, with this statement. One of the reasons that Christian hip-hop is not a daily diet for me anymore is simply because there is not much variation in topics. As I study the whole Bible, I see loneliness, pride, arrogance, blessings, corruption, lust, etc. In other words, it gives us a snapshot of the true reality of the world. Very few Christian artists do this period. I suspect it also has to do with the love/hate relationship they have with Christian radio. Christian radio primarily plays 'Jesus' music. 2.Evangelical Hip Hop is vocationally confused. I agree with this statement. I once worked for a parachurch and struggled with a similar dichotomy. How am I connected to the church? Do the youth view this ministry as church? I believe this is a larger problem in evangelicalism and simply plays itself out through the way the church and Christians express themselves. 3.Evangelical Hip Hop is a misapplication of a medium. This is the statement that causes the most arguments. Hip Hop was born out of African American/Latino cultures in NYC. Therefore, it had a strong prophetic bent to it. This seems to be missing from a lot of Christian music, in general. In Hip Hop's case, I would suggest that the market that allowed for a dc talk to exist may be the issue. DC Talk watered down rap so much so that it would appeal to mainstream (white) Christian America. If you ask many kids of color from that era, I bet they never heard of them. You had to be connected to evangelical suburban Christian culture to really know who they were (which includes Carmen, etc). As a result, the rap they introduced had a very sugary sweet Jesus kind of impact on white teen Christians with no real prophetic bent. In other words, rhyming was used mainly to entertain, not inform. By and large, the evangelical church does not respond well to the prophetic word and we know this by how they responded to MLK when he was alive. I would suggest that to compare Mos Def and Kweli to Christian rap is not totally fair. Mose Def and Kweli continued a long standing tradition in hip hop of lyricism and social consciousness that goes back to the 70s and 80s (Grandmaster Melle Mel, Public Enemy, X-Clan, etc). A blueprint had been laid out, it went underground for a while and they tapped into it. Quality Christian rap had NO foundation to build on (other than what secular artists did) which means it took a few wrong turns here and there. That is to be expected. It has definitely improved but is still being boxed in by various marketing forces. Check out Sho Baraka, Lacrae, Da Truth, Flame, Tunnel Rats, Playdough, etc. Good commentary. I discovered this topic late but oh well…

I think some valid points are made in this commentary. I have met a lot of Christian rap artists over the years. As a former youth minister, I introduced lots of kids to it. Here is my take.

1.Evangelical Hip Hop is confessionally shallow.
I agree with you, to some extent, with this statement. One of the reasons that Christian hip-hop is not a daily diet for me anymore is simply because there is not much variation in topics. As I study the whole Bible, I see loneliness, pride, arrogance, blessings, corruption, lust, etc. In other words, it gives us a snapshot of the true reality of the world. Very few Christian artists do this period. I suspect it also has to do with the love/hate relationship they have with Christian radio. Christian radio primarily plays ‘Jesus’ music.

2.Evangelical Hip Hop is vocationally confused.
I agree with this statement. I once worked for a parachurch and struggled with a similar dichotomy. How am I connected to the church? Do the youth view this ministry as church? I believe this is a larger problem in evangelicalism and simply plays itself out through the way the church and Christians express themselves.

3.Evangelical Hip Hop is a misapplication of a medium.
This is the statement that causes the most arguments. Hip Hop was born out of African American/Latino cultures in NYC. Therefore, it had a strong prophetic bent to it. This seems to be missing from a lot of Christian music, in general. In Hip Hop’s case, I would suggest that the market that allowed for a dc talk to exist may be the issue. DC Talk watered down rap so much so that it would appeal to mainstream (white) Christian America. If you ask many kids of color from that era, I bet they never heard of them. You had to be connected to evangelical suburban Christian culture to really know who they were (which includes Carmen, etc). As a result, the rap they introduced had a very sugary sweet Jesus kind of impact on white teen Christians with no real prophetic bent. In other words, rhyming was used mainly to entertain, not inform. By and large, the evangelical church does not respond well to the prophetic word and we know this by how they responded to MLK when he was alive.

I would suggest that to compare Mos Def and Kweli to Christian rap is not totally fair. Mose Def and Kweli continued a long standing tradition in hip hop of lyricism and social consciousness that goes back to the 70s and 80s (Grandmaster Melle Mel, Public Enemy, X-Clan, etc). A blueprint had been laid out, it went underground for a while and they tapped into it. Quality Christian rap had NO foundation to build on (other than what secular artists did) which means it took a few wrong turns here and there. That is to be expected.

It has definitely improved but is still being boxed in by various marketing forces.

Check out Sho Baraka, Lacrae, Da Truth, Flame, Tunnel Rats, Playdough, etc.

Good commentary.

]]> By: J http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-68298 J Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:41:15 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-68298 Forget about it. Christian rap is sooo much better than secular rap. I've been a fan for a while. It has a sick beat and amazing lyrics. Lil Wayne can't rap without cussin or talkin about vileness for his life. When u look at it, look at the main heads of each group: Lecrae vs Lil Wayne, Lecrae explains that the love of money is WRONG which was exactly what Jesus said. Wayne...just wants the benjamins. Tedashii vs Young Jeezy, Tedashii says that we should be rebels for Christ and do wats right. Jeezy just wants to be a thug. Trip Lee vs Eminem, Trip says that we should not be afraid to rep Christ and stand out and set an example. Eminem is foul, and has nothing positive to say. He talks VERY disrespectfully.When it all comes down...who's right? I know in my heart that Christians are right(i proudly am one). The music has awsum lyrics and a tight beat. Forget about it. Christian rap is sooo much better than secular rap. I’ve been a fan for a while. It has a sick beat and amazing lyrics. Lil Wayne can’t rap without cussin or talkin about vileness for his life. When u look at it, look at the main heads of each group: Lecrae vs Lil Wayne, Lecrae explains that the love of money is WRONG which was exactly what Jesus said. Wayne…just wants the benjamins. Tedashii vs Young Jeezy, Tedashii says that we should be rebels for Christ and do wats right. Jeezy just wants to be a thug. Trip Lee vs Eminem, Trip says that we should not be afraid to rep Christ and stand out and set an example. Eminem is foul, and has nothing positive to say. He talks VERY disrespectfully.When it all comes down…who’s right? I know in my heart that Christians are right(i proudly am one). The music has awsum lyrics and a tight beat.

]]> By: Lemuel http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-67663 Lemuel Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:20:25 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-67663 The integrity of the msg reflects in the work that you do. If the persons view or "walk with God"is week or generic it will reflect in thier work. Also, rap and its biological twin sister,hip hop,was an artform of expression. Origionaly it was not for mere intertainment. To believe that music or the arts have ever been given to us for mere intertainment is so shallow and abussive to the arts. Thats why all areas of music and the arts have sufferd. All good and perfect gift is from God,including the gift of music. God gifted David with a gift in music,and he used it to calm the King Saul when he would get tormented by spirits. God had Ezekiel use theatrics when delivering a msg to His people. Failure to in christian music is a reflection of the churches condition in general. We all bear the blame. Disciplship,exortation, and unity in the ministry of redemtion is all of our responsibility. At least artists are trying every way they can to spread the gospel. The integrity of the msg reflects in the work that you do. If the persons view or “walk with God”is week or generic it will reflect in thier work. Also, rap and its biological twin sister,hip hop,was an artform of expression. Origionaly it was not for mere intertainment. To believe that music or the arts have ever been given to us for mere intertainment is so shallow and abussive to the arts. Thats why all areas of music and the arts have sufferd. All good and perfect gift is from God,including the gift of music. God gifted David with a gift in music,and he used it to calm the King Saul when he would get tormented by spirits. God had Ezekiel use theatrics when delivering a msg to His people. Failure to in christian music is a reflection of the churches condition in general. We all bear the blame. Disciplship,exortation, and unity in the ministry of redemtion is all of our responsibility. At least artists are trying every way they can to spread the gospel.

]]> By: Nerd42 http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-66332 Nerd42 Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:09:19 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-66332 Christian rappers are entertainers, nothing more, and should recognize this fact. Christian rappers are entertainers, nothing more, and should recognize this fact.

]]> By: Scott http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-59488 Scott Wed, 25 Nov 2009 19:42:33 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-59488 Ugh. I just now figured out it wasn't satire. That kinda dulls my point in linking it... and it makes me a little bit sad. p.s. There's a couple brief side-hugs near the end. During one of them the emcee suggests just patting the girl on the back. You know, so things don't escalate into full-blown hug action. Ugh. I just now figured out it wasn’t satire. That kinda dulls my point in linking it… and it makes me a little bit sad.

p.s. There’s a couple brief side-hugs near the end. During one of them the emcee suggests just patting the girl on the back. You know, so things don’t escalate into full-blown hug action.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-59468 The Dane Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:00:11 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-59468 It's good to see you admit defeat like this Scott. p.s. I was surprised that I got more than two minutes in to that thing. I kept hoping it would get worse. And then I realized it would. It, in fact, couldn't. And so there was no longer any need to continue. I guess the one thing I'm left wondering is if at any point during the performance do one of those fine examples of young men actually demonstrate this inFamous side-hug with one of the two female set pieces? Can anyone answer? I don't really want to have to watch it all the way through to find out. It’s good to see you admit defeat like this Scott.

p.s. I was surprised that I got more than two minutes in to that thing. I kept hoping it would get worse. And then I realized it would. It, in fact, couldn’t. And so there was no longer any need to continue.

I guess the one thing I’m left wondering is if at any point during the performance do one of those fine examples of young men actually demonstrate this inFamous side-hug with one of the two female set pieces? Can anyone answer? I don’t really want to have to watch it all the way through to find out.

]]> By: Scott http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-59434 Scott Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:46:46 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-59434 This almost certainly has something valuable to add to the discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Oj0-splZw&feature=player_embedded This almost certainly has something valuable to add to the discussion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_Oj0-splZw&feature=player_embedded

]]> By: urbanitezoutreach http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-53923 urbanitezoutreach Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:34:45 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-53923 God is definitely elevating Christian Hip Hop, artists, labels, and the like. Checkout: www.crossmovement.com www.lampmode.com www.reachrecords.com They are reaching believers and unbelievers with the truth of Jesus Christ. Evangelistic work is being done. God is definitely elevating Christian Hip Hop, artists, labels, and the like. Checkout: http://www.crossmovement.com
http://www.lampmode.com
http://www.reachrecords.com
They are reaching believers and unbelievers with the truth of Jesus Christ. Evangelistic work is being done.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43190 The Dane Wed, 27 May 2009 21:16:51 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43190 @Scott - You'll get there one day! And when you breathe that rarefied air, you'll realize that all your hard work was worth the effort and that when the Preacher proclaimed that all is vanity, he didn't really mean All—just mostly all. <abbr><em>The Danes last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/YmyiWLQvxLo/2009_04_01_old1.php" rel="nofollow">20090417.teaParty</a></abbr></em> @Scott – You’ll get there one day! And when you breathe that rarefied air, you’ll realize that all your hard work was worth the effort and that when the Preacher proclaimed that all is vanity, he didn’t really mean All—just mostly all.

The Danes last blog post..20090417.teaParty

]]> By: Scott http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43188 Scott Wed, 27 May 2009 20:57:59 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43188 @Alan - Well, Dang. Why not? It's a good post. Too long maybe? @The Dane - Yeh. Guess we can't <i>all</i> be big timers like yourself. ;-) <abbr><em>Scotts last blog post..<a href="http://scott-schultz.blogspot.com/2009/05/additionally.html" rel="nofollow">Additionally</a></abbr></em> @Alan – Well, Dang. Why not? It’s a good post. Too long maybe?

@The Dane – Yeh. Guess we can’t all be big timers like yourself. ;-)

Scotts last blog post..Additionally

]]> By: Alan Noble http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43180 Alan Noble Wed, 27 May 2009 18:08:21 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43180 Scott, I think the key is that most people don't actually read your post. Dane, Yes, the dispensationalist charge was a fun one. Scott, I think the key is that most people don’t actually read your post.

Dane, Yes, the dispensationalist charge was a fun one.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43177 The Dane Wed, 27 May 2009 17:38:02 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43177 Well, they still haven't accused you of dispensationalism. That's when you know you've hit the big time. <abbr><em>The Danes last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/YmyiWLQvxLo/2009_04_01_old1.php" rel="nofollow">20090417.teaParty</a></abbr></em> Well, they still haven’t accused you of dispensationalism. That’s when you know you’ve hit the big time.

The Danes last blog post..20090417.teaParty

]]> By: Scott http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43176 Scott Wed, 27 May 2009 17:25:04 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43176 I think it's a little freaky how many people have read this and decided that I'm probably not a Christian. <abbr><em>Scotts last blog post..<a href="http://scott-schultz.blogspot.com/2009/05/additionally.html" rel="nofollow">Additionally</a></abbr></em> I think it’s a little freaky how many people have read this and decided that I’m probably not a Christian.

Scotts last blog post..Additionally

]]> By: Richard Clark http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43093 Richard Clark Tue, 26 May 2009 23:54:31 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43093 KB, Scott is a professing evangelical Christian. To question that is pretty low. Way worse than questioning your chosen musical genre. KB, Scott is a professing evangelical Christian. To question that is pretty low. Way worse than questioning your chosen musical genre.

]]> By: The Dane http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43090 The Dane Tue, 26 May 2009 23:31:24 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43090 I get that feeling too, Scott. <abbr><em>The Danes last blog post..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/nowheresville/~3/YmyiWLQvxLo/2009_04_01_old1.php" rel="nofollow">20090417.teaParty</a></abbr></em> I get that feeling too, Scott.

The Danes last blog post..20090417.teaParty

]]> By: KB http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-43086 KB Tue, 26 May 2009 23:05:29 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-43086 I respect your opinion but as a Christian and a Christian music fan i disagree. I get the feeling that you might not understand Christianity so you probably wont feel christian rap or Christian music in general. Artists like Lecrae, Trip Lee, T-Bone and others have the chops and they bring a message of hope. Yeah its not Kanye (Thank God) but for people of faith it's a God send. I respect your opinion but as a Christian and a Christian music fan i disagree. I get the feeling that you might not understand Christianity so you probably wont feel christian rap or Christian music in general. Artists like Lecrae, Trip Lee, T-Bone and others have the chops and they bring a message of hope. Yeah its not Kanye (Thank God) but for people of faith it’s a God send.

]]> By: Venson http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-42561 Venson Sat, 23 May 2009 23:01:42 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-42561 oh yeah check these artist out, they are believers and in my opinion have the most balanced mix of spiritualty and raw talent. www.myspace.com/mrjmedeiros www.myspace.com/othello (has had songs on MTV's "from G's to gents" www.myspace.com/ohmegawatts www.myspace.com/braillebrizzy (used to open for James Brown, also has had his album rated in the Source magazine,etc... www.myspace.com/theoryhazit www.myspace.com/promisemusic www.myspace.com/vigilant1 (myself....lol) oh yeah check these artist out, they are believers and in my opinion have the most balanced mix of spiritualty and raw talent.

http://www.myspace.com/mrjmedeiros

http://www.myspace.com/othello (has had songs on MTV’s “from G’s to gents”

http://www.myspace.com/ohmegawatts

http://www.myspace.com/braillebrizzy (used to open for James Brown, also has had his album rated in the Source magazine,etc…

http://www.myspace.com/theoryhazit

http://www.myspace.com/promisemusic

http://www.myspace.com/vigilant1 (myself….lol)

]]> By: Venson http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-42559 Venson Sat, 23 May 2009 22:52:10 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-42559 The only thing I want to ask is: "why are we so bent on making divisions in art/music?" Art is art. Music is music. Why trip about the details? So what if any genre is failing or not. It doesn't matter. Well, aat least to the artist it shouldn't. True artists/musicians understand this. Music is art. Both are very personal. It is very sad that this is even an issue. The problem isn't an evangelical hiphop problem. Nor is it a secular problem. It is a HUMAN problem. PS. I am a former Christian hiphop artist. Now I just make music. If you want to label it...fine...but best believe I don't/won't. Thanks for letting me rant for a little bit. Venson The only thing I want to ask is: “why are we so bent on making divisions in art/music?” Art is art. Music is music. Why trip about the details? So what if any genre is failing or not. It doesn’t matter. Well, aat least to the artist it shouldn’t. True artists/musicians understand this.

Music is art. Both are very personal. It is very sad that this is even an issue. The problem isn’t an evangelical hiphop problem. Nor is it a secular problem. It is a HUMAN problem.

PS. I am a former Christian hiphop artist. Now I just make music. If you want to label it…fine…but best believe I don’t/won’t.

Thanks for letting me rant for a little bit.

Venson

]]> By: Bea K. http://www.christandpopculture.com/music/the-failure-of-christian-hip-hop/#comment-39424 Bea K. Sat, 09 May 2009 02:38:17 +0000 http://www.christandpopculture.com/?p=514#comment-39424 Know I'm late here, but these are really good, and quite interesting comments. I just wanted to know why those who 'say' they are Christians, and love Christ can't just sing the music (hymns, rap, hip-hop, etc., with Christian lyrics of course) that shows how much they actually do love "them" (God and Jesus)? For so many years I've heard over and over again, "if you want your music to sell, you don't necessarily have to add Christian lyrics to them", or "the secular world really doesn't want to hear about your God or Jesus, so tone it down and say something else", or some other such nonsense. If you really are Christ-centered, who are you trying to 'please', God/Jesus or 'the world'? God is the one who makes the way for each and every one of us, despite what the 'world' says or even thinks, but it seems as if the Bible is being ful-filled at such as rapid clip because we seem so focused on "what they're going to say or what they even think about us". Who exactly 'does the drawing' of souls to the Kingdom, God or us humans? Hip-hop, opera, hymns, etc., if you "truly" LOVE God and Jesus with "everything" in you, sing about it (isn't that a form of praise as well?)and let God/Jesus do the rest. It's not about 'us' people, isn't it really about the LOVE that we say we have for the God who loved us from the beginning of time, and to let those around us know that as well? If it's meant for them to "hear the Words in the music" they will, if not then so be it. "God is totally in control" and that's what counts. Be blessed everyone. Know I’m late here, but these are really good, and quite interesting comments. I just wanted to know why those who ’say’ they are Christians, and love Christ can’t just sing the music (hymns, rap, hip-hop, etc., with Christian lyrics of course) that shows how much they actually do love “them” (God and Jesus)?

For so many years I’ve heard over and over again, “if you want your music to sell, you don’t necessarily have to add Christian lyrics to them”, or “the secular world really doesn’t want to hear about your God or Jesus, so tone it down and say something else”, or some other such nonsense. If you really are Christ-centered, who are you trying to ‘please’, God/Jesus or ‘the world’?

God is the one who makes the way for each and every one of us, despite what the ‘world’ says or even thinks, but it seems as if the Bible is being ful-filled at such as rapid clip because we seem so focused on “what they’re going to say or what they even think about us”. Who exactly ‘does the drawing’ of souls to the Kingdom, God or us humans?

Hip-hop, opera, hymns, etc., if you “truly” LOVE God and Jesus with “everything” in you, sing about it (isn’t that a form of praise as well?)and let God/Jesus do the rest. It’s not about ‘us’ people, isn’t it really about the LOVE that we say we have for the God who loved us from the beginning of time, and to let those around us know that as well? If it’s meant for them to “hear the Words in the music” they will, if not then so be it. “God is totally in control” and that’s what counts. Be blessed everyone.

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