‘Lost’ Patience
CaPC Water Cooler: Did Lost jump the shark? Two CaPC writers debate the premiere.
by CAPC Writers
9 February 2010
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10 Comments
With the final season of Lost just around the corner, a lot of the writers at Christ and Pop Culture have finally found a television show they can agree on. From it’s beginning, it’s dealt head on with issues of morality, spirituality and faith. Most importantly, it’s a show that is thoughtfully and artfully produced, presenting us with a unique plot and real, empathetic characters. Naturally, it’s a perfect show for CaPC writers to discuss in our Water Cooler series.
Leading up to the season premier, we’ll discuss the show so far, and what we might expect in the coming weeks and months. Once the show starts, you can expect regular updates, in which we discuss each episode and its implications.
Previous Installments:
Pre-season: Lost’s Biggest Question.
Pre-season, part 2: Lost’s Free Will Dilemma
Warning! If you are not completely caught up with Lost, you won’t want to read any further.
Ben writes,
Ok guys, I’ve been holding off on the Lost conversation till now. I just didn’t feel I had much to add. But after last night, things have gone a little too far and I want to hear your thoughts.
First, my favorite part of the show was always strong character building. However, it seems that they have completely abandoned realistic portrayal of individual struggles. Instead, they throw characters from one wild extreme to another, not caring about history or perspective or learning over time.
Example A was the idiocy of Sawyer deciding that he is going to kill Jack (or later, let him “suffer like the rest of us”). Really? Your girlfriend dying by her own choice and then affirming her decision suddenly removes all history with Jack, and blames him for not knowing what would happen when they set off a nuclear weapon near an ill-defined power source for an island that can leap through time? Even when your girlfriend said he was right? This sort of foolish, pasted-in emotion is cartoon quality stuff.
Second, the supposed faith vs. science theme is a joke. Merely repeating a variety of circumstances over and over where characters pick one or the other is not an exploration of a theme… it’s just repetition. If I tell you 45 stories of different people deciding whether to have the usual for lunch or to try something new, that doesn’t qualify as insightful exposition of decision making.
And finally, sticking random religious elements into a show is something anyone can do. Actually using those elements helpfully is something else entirely. Was Sayid “baptised”? Who cares? It clearly had nothing to do with real baptism’s purpose. How is that good art?
Ok, one more complaint. The hollow religious icon in the guitar case containing a note was just silly.
Richard writes,
Ben, I think you’re being too hard on Lost, and my primary argument is simply to point out that it’s a television show. Let me explain…
I don’t at all mean that television is by default of a lower quality than books and film. That’s an easy excuse, and if that were the case, I want to spend my time elsewhere. You can get out of television a series of benefits that you don’t get anywhere else, just as you can from books a film.
It is in fact that drastic difference between mediums that I think you may be forgetting, which is particularly unfortunate when you consider the fact that Lost has been extremely successful in taking advantage of its’ own medium. The mysteries stretched out over years, the huge amount of water-cooler conversation, and yes, the ability to get to know and relate to the characters of lost all take advantage of the medium and would not be able to be replicated in film.
It’s understandable that you would see this 2 hour premiere event as a standalone thing, but let’s establish some perspective:
First, as you alluded to, we’ve seen sawyer grow as a person throughout the series, but while you might find it idiotic that Sawyer would slip into kill-mode after the blast and death of Juliet, to me it’s perfectly understandable that Sawyer would have a sort of lapse after what truly is one of the most soul-crushing developments we’ve seen on the show yet. All of the Lost crew were disappointed it didn’t work, but Sawyer lost what appears to be his one true love in the process. And let’s not downplay the significance of Sawyer having a “one true love” in the first place. I think the “lapse” shows as much growth as it does anything.
Second, the faith vs. science thing: I think the “repetition” is frustrating to you because, again, this is a television show, which is episodic and long-running in nature. They’re trying to drive a theme home, and unfortunately since the show has not finished yet, it’s hard to decipher exactly what that theme is. I’m not going to say it’s going to be brilliant, but I do think you go a little too far in calling it “a joke.” To me, the debate has been much more than people picking one or the other, and I don’t really think that’s the focus anyway. Instead, the focus has been the struggle inherent in trying to pick one or the other, and what it does to you. Even when Jack and Locke traded sides, they still struggled and had doubts about those decisions.
Finally, the random religious imagery: What we’re looking for here is clues, not big incredible metaphors. So yes, I think it might be relevant that Sayid seemed to be baptized, especially since he died and rose again afterward. It’s not that the moment was brilliantly artistic. It’s just that it may have some significance for those of us who enjoy trying to figure out what in the world is going on.
The nature of the TV show is that it’s only as good as it’s final season, and we’re just not there yet. I actually really like the concept of the “flash sideways” to different realities, especially since the writers have said that these realities are both equally valid.
Alan, David, what about you guys? Did the premiere delight, frustrate, underwhelm, or confound you? Or all of the above? And where does Lost now stand on the free will issue?
Ben writes,
I don’t think you’re really addressing my concerns by pointing out that it is a television show. I wasn’t complaining about the 2 hour premiere itself, I was complaining about the way the episode fit into the larger context of the show as a whole.
Richard writes,
I’m going to make this short so other people can talk, but the famed Lost recapper, Jeff Jenson had this to say about Sawyer’s reaction:
Complicating the intensifying friction between Jack and Sawyer was Juliet’s final words. Sawyer gleaned them by forcing Mikes to perform his talks-to-the-dead magic. ”It worked,” Miles reported. Sawyer was flummoxed. What ‘worked’? Sawyer stomped away, bitter. My take on Sawyer is that he really blames himself for losing Juliet — that his little piece of heaven was rescinded because someone upstairs realized he hadn’t earned it, that what in fact he deserves is (eternal) punishment. (Remember, the man was a con man — and he is a murderer.) I think maybe Sawyer betrayed as much in his later line to Kate: ”He deserves to suffer on this rock just like the rest of us.” It was misdirected anger, but that’s Sawyer all over. If he has to pay for his sins, then by golly, everyone else will, too.
(No Love Yet)
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From reading just this, I’m going to assume that you haven’t been a Lost watcher for the past 5 years, Ben? I would also hazard a guess that most of the people you’ve talked to about Lost don’t like it, either? As a huge fan of the show, I think that’s unfortunate.
As to the issue of repetition… Repetition has, forever and ever, been a method of adding emphasis to a point already made. Peruse scripture, particularly the poetry and wisdom books, and you will see words, phrases, entire ideas, and sometimes even the stories themselves repeated. It is a literary device to add emphasis, not new meaning. I think the amazing thing is, though, that often when we repeat something over and over, we begin to find new meaning in it. Take scripture again, for example. You can read the same passage or verse dozens of times and experience or learn something different each time.
I’m not trying to say that Lost is on par with scripture, but the principle holds. I think the faith v. science/reason question has come up over and over again so that viewers get an opportunity to see what that struggle looks like from the perspective of a spinal surgeon, a paraplegic, a lottery winner, a scoundrel, a drug addict, a single mother, etc., etc., etc.
Come on, Ben. Give Sawyer a break. Juliette is one of the only good things that has ever happened to him, and he lost her – after three years with her. He was always the one who was pushing against what Jack was doing, and the only reason being, because he loved Juliette and the life they had built together on the Dharma Initiative. It’s perfectly reasonable to be so upset with Jack. In fact, had he not, we’d be questioning the realism of the scene and the characters.
Fair thoughts guys, but I simply disagree.
I have, in fact, seen every episode of Lost. And the vast majority of people I speak to about the show love it. And I am a fan of the show!
I agree that repetition can be a helpful tool for exploration of a concept. As a huge literature fan, this much is obvious. The problem is that Lost isn’t, in my view, repeating to explore, they’re repeating just to repeat.
For instance, in the most recent episodes, the characters are all about 4 years older. In that time they’ve been challenged in new ways, become much more developed in their character, learned new things about self vs. community… and these are all reasons I love those show. However, though I see them learning new things about people, I do not see them learning or exploring new themes about faith vs. science, though that theme is repeated constantly. To me, that is a theme that never advances or experiences development of its own. They simply run into the same sorts of decisions over and over, and pick one or the other. They never talk about what they’re experiencing as a group, never argue about WHY they should trust science or trust faith (just WHETHER), never work through common agreement on what is behind the experiences they’re having.
The point about seeing this struggle in various individuals is all well and good, but we learned most of that in season 1. I’d just like to see advancement of the theme, so that we’re taken to a new place artistically.
And I disagree about Sawyer. The show went out of its way to show what a changed man he was in a variety of ways… sacrificing himself for others, placing the group above himself, becoming a leader, etc. Further, it advanced him in terms of how he viewed his own life. I simply do not think it is faithful to the story arc to have him suddenly decide to kill Jack for something they all agreed to without certainty of what would happen. A little misdirected anger is fine (such as getting yelling and hollering about Jack’s leadership generally), but misdirected blame to the point of threatening murder doesn’t really make sense. I think in the most recent episode he’s back to where he should be, and I’m excited to see what happens… but the detour was a time-waster in my eyes.
I really like the show for a lot of reasons, especially its advancement of the characters’ maturity and growth over time. But I still say the faith vs. reason “theme” is poorly done and the Sawyer story arc for the premeire of season 6 was a departure from where that character should have been.
I still don’t understand. Basically, his common-law wife died and he blamed Jack for it. Is it reasonable for him to do so? Sure – he’s likely traumatized. Juliette is, after all, buried beneath piles and piles of heavy metal objects and is likely alive, if only briefly. I think if it were me, I’d probably freak out too. You want him to be stoic or something, but that seems unreasonable.
Ben,
Sawyer has always been a hard character for me. I feel the same way about him as I do about Anakin Skywalker: Sure, people act and talk like that, but they are immature and kind of annoying. So I’d say it makes sense for Sawyer to get angry with Jack, but it did feel a bit melodramatic to me. And I also was expect a bit more out of Sawyer. I honestly was annoyed by his character up until season 5 when they made him grow up a bit. But maybe it is asking too much to expect him to mature in one season (or “three years”). It may not have felt appropriate for Season 5 Sawyer to want to kill Jack, but it did seem appropriate for Seasons 1-4.
You’re certainly entitled to that perspective, Scott! You’re in the majority. :-)
It’s not so much that I want Sawyer to be stoic. I am quite comfortable with anger and bitterness. But here’s where I don’t think Lost has done a great job considering story and character implications: time changes people.
In the case of Sawyer, he had years to reflect on his experiences with the Oceanic survivors, and to sort through all the emotional discoveries he made during that time. Further, he had a loving partner with a calm and thoughtful nature sharing that time with him. And yet he suddenly reverts to his character from before that time when she dies? Unlikely.
I agree that season 1-4 Sawyer may have reacted somewhat like the premiere. But I feel they ignored the power of time and relationships to change people, and it fell flat to me.
Maybe Sawyer experienced the kind of growth he did during his three years with the Dharma Initiative BECAUSE OF Juliet. And now that she’s gone (and gone in a tragic hero sort of way), that stabilizing influence is gone from Sawyer’s life.
Given that circumstance, I can understand how Sawyer would revert back to “pre-Juliet-and-nice-domesticated-life” Sawyer. He does seem to have grown some in and of himself, though. His actions in this week’s episode show him to be more thoughtful and introspective than the Sawyer of seasons 1-4 seemed capable of.
I’m probably beating a dead horse, but honestly, I really don’t think most people would approach the situation you’re approaching it, Ben. I don’t mean with regards to viewing Sawyer this way or that way. I mean, if they were Sawyer’s shoes. Sawyer by all accounts spent the three best years of his life with Juliette. He fought hard against Jack’s plan. The plan ultimately caused Juliette’s death. Sawyer is a murderer already – a lifelong criminal who until Juliette had never (not even with the Oceanic survivors) had anything remotely healthy in terms of relationships. His relationship with Jack was never very strong – I wouldn’t even say he reluctantly liked Jack. He disliked everyone, because he hated himself so strongly. Juliette changed him, just like any loving relationship changes someone. And it’s utterly believable too – three years is a long time, and even moreso when you consider all the circumstances of those three years. Sawyer provided real value to a community, and was in a deeply loving and healthy relationship with a woman who knew him, understand him and all his wounds and evil, and loved him. The total package was taken from him, and he’s catapaulted back – so he thinks – to a life and a person that he actually hates. He hates who he is; he loved who he was with Juliette. More than that, though, he loved Juliette. And she died because of Jack’s decisions. It wouldn’t matter to Sawyer in those moments even if he did learn that she voluntarily blew up the bomb. It’s entirely consistent with Sawyer’s character to be this upset and want to kill Jack. I’ve wanted to kill people for far less.
I have just now caught up on Lost, so now I feel like I can actually contribute something to the conversation.
I must admit that I have not read everything you guys have written (though I intend to because I think this is interesting). I do want to say something with regard to Ben’s first point about character developement–which I think is Lost’s greatest acheivement.
What makes Lost such an interesting show is not so much the wildly unbelieveable events that take place, but the character’s interactions with each other in the midest of those struggles. That is what all goood science fiction does–it places characters in a highly bizzare or incredibly tense or incredibly confusing situation and lets the characters respond to and struggle with those events.
I think some of the characters have already been redeemed on some level. Examples in my mind would be Charlie, Sawyer, Jin, and Desmond. Sawyer was for a long time a very selfish person and throughout the story begins to learn the value of selflessness and eventually the value of love with Juliet. He no longer lives for himself. His outburst against Jack has now been tempered considerably–the old Sawyer would have remained embittered irreprably against Jack, but now he actually blames himself and takes responsibility on some level. I think he will end up sacrificing himself further to help those on the island. His jaunt into the jungle was driven by his past selfishness–I think he has changed and we can expect to further prove himself to be a hero.
Desmond was a fearful whimp–now he is a faithful husband and father. Jin similarly was a controlling husband and now is a forgiving and loving husband. The wild and crazy world of the island and those who have inhabited provide the intense senarios without which Lost’s characters would not learn much needed lessons and thus would not grow. Redemption is what keeps me watching Lost and I think some characters are still awaiting redemption (Jack and Kate) and it will be interesting to see if all the characters find it. I think some of them certainly will not.
I think this is where perhaps the infection will play itself out, the Island appears to have incredible potential to transform people (both physically and spiritually), but I suspect the infection seeks to undermine that and probably will undermine that for some characters.
It will be interesting to see.
That’s a thoughtful comment Drew… you express exactly how I feel much better than I could or did. I don’t feel like I’ve learned much of anything from the faith v. reason theme, but the redemption idea is riveting and well done in my view. I don’t much care what the creators of Lost think about whether we should believe in God or science, but every week I tune in because I want Jack to find peace, Sawyer to find healing, Kate to find safety and security, etc.
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